Curse

obastable · Aug 15, 2006, 08:26 AM // 08:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demesis

Hahahaha! This thread is a joke. Guild Wars teaching kids about money is like 'Grand Theft Auto' teaching you how to live a successful life. Or 'Super Mario' teaching you about mushroom poisoning. Or 'Singles' teaching you how to have sex.

Seriously, if a game is teaching kids what to do in real life, then where the hell are their parents? Guild Wars is the WORST game to have a kid learn from. This game encourages scamming, rudeness and harrassment because of the absence of enforcement. If this hypothetical kid were to apply all of this in real life, he'd have his ass sent to juvenile hall.

Guild Wars is a fictional game, not an educational supplement.

You want education? Go to school.

Not to single you out, Demesis, as others have made similar remarks and points, but yours just stands out a bit more...

As someone who was homeschooled for many years, and now homeschools their own kid, I can safely say that virtually anything anywhere can be used as an educational tool. Yes... even video games. My son plays many, including GW, but most of the games he plays lack longevity. The few MMORPG's and whatnot that he has played were always given up on. Then we bought a few copies of Guild Wars.

'Lo... it took him nearly 6 months to work his way through the story line, but after a few muted complaints of "not knowing what to do or how to do it" and being given advice to figure it out, he did just that. From Borlis Pass through to the end he played through the game by himself. He was 10 years old at the time, and will be turning 12 soon.

The point: Kids like games (duh), and if they like something enough that it holds their interest for more than 5 seconds they'll learn it through and through, regardless of how many times they get stuck or confused. In the case of my son, he's learned some incredible problem solving skills and gained an immense amount of patience, which I'm glad to say he applies to life situations and not just to video games (though he has gone back to past MMORPG's and completed them as well).

I'm not saying this is how it is for all kids, but all kids are not the same, nor are their parents.

Demesis · Aug 15, 2006, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by obastable

Not to single you out, Demesis, as others have made similar remarks and points, but yours just stands out a bit more...

As someone who was homeschooled for many years, and now homeschools their own kid, I can safely say that virtually anything anywhere can be used as an educational tool. Yes... even video games. My son plays many, including GW, but most of the games he plays lack longevity. The few MMORPG's and whatnot that he has played were always given up on. Then we bought a few copies of Guild Wars.

'Lo... it took him nearly 6 months to work his way through the story line, but after a few muted complaints of "not knowing what to do or how to do it" and being given advice to figure it out, he did just that. From Borlis Pass through to the end he played through the game by himself. He was 10 years old at the time, and will be turning 12 soon.

The point: Kids like games (duh), and if they like something enough that it holds their interest for more than 5 seconds they'll learn it through and through, regardless of how many times they get stuck or confused. In the case of my son, he's learned some incredible problem solving skills and gained an immense amount of patience, which I'm glad to say he applies to life situations and not just to video games (though he has gone back to past MMORPG's and completed them as well).

I'm not saying this is how it is for all kids, but all kids are not the same, nor are their parents.

What ever happened to the traditional means of playing? Like action figures and lego? I remember playing with those when I was a kid. At least those action figures help me use my creativity to make my own story lines. Lego helped me understand basic mechanics when I build things.

I played chess when I was 12, no cookie-cutter builds there. No yelling of 'noob', STFU, or WTS WTS WTS WTS spam.

Not to say that your ways of teaching is wrong, you turned out perfectly fine. I just don't like kids learning from Guild Wars.

Look at it from this way, do you want your child learning things from people you don't even know? Total strangers on the internet? We have scammers, abusers, harrasers and sexual predators online. These are the things that happen so frequently in game, that the playground in my neighbourhood looks safe.

Let him go outside and play imaginary Guild Wars with friends in the neighbourhood park. Wait until he's a little older then let him play Guild Wars. Then he'll be able to grasp and understand why the world is full of assholes.

Kids love games, but please find something that doesn't involve a computer game, especially Guild Wars. I'm saying this as friendly advice and from experience.

P.s. Guild Wars also gave my cousin horrible spelling. He's an 8 year old that spells 'the' as 'teh' and 'you' as 'u', 'like' as 'liek'.

P.s.s. If your son has been playing through the whole game with henchies, well I guess that's acceptable

obastable · Aug 15, 2006, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demesis

I played chess when I was 12, no cookie-cutter builds there. No yelling of 'noob', STFU, or WTS WTS WTS WTS spam.

I actually don't see that as a downfall. There are difficult people in the world, and I honestly feel more comfortable if he learns to deal with them through reason (and from a safe distance) than any other means before he has to deal with them in person. Don't take this to mean that I condone the behaviour of these people. I simply accept that it exists and try to find a positive advantage to it.

Quote:

Look at it from this way, do you want your child learning things from people you don't even know? Total strangers on the internet? We have scammers, abusers, harrasers and sexual predators online. These are the things that happen so frequently in game, that the playground in my neighbourhood looks safe.

I can't see how that's any different than when a kid goes to school. Unless I'm taking him to and from school everyday, and sitting in on every class, then there's potential risk for him to interact with hundreds of people I've never met on a daily basis. At least on GW I can peek over his shoulder once in a while, and feel assured that he's safe.

Quote:

Let him go outside and play imaginary Guild Wars with friends in the neighbourhood park. Wait until he's a little older then let him play Guild Wars. Then he'll be able to grasp and understand why the world is full of assholes.

The kid plays soccer, goes to Scouts & an outdoors club, enjoys archery, mountain biking, skiing, and attends a "class" with other local homeschoolers 2 days a week. He has more Lego & MegaBlocks than I ever dreamed of owning (why couldn't WE have Robotic Lego when we were kids?!), an annual membership for the Zoo, the Museum, and the Science Centre.. There is no lack of social interaction, fun & stimulating environments, or imaginative play.

Quote:

Kids love games, but please find something that doesn't involve a computer game, especially Guild Wars. I'm saying this as friendly advice and from experience.

This is probably the only part I actually needed to respond to, but oh well..

Your experience has less to do with the quality or educational value of games than with the choices you (and/or your parents) were willing to make when it came to them. This is the core subject of any arguement that contains the words "video games" and "educational". For the most part the issue is not the game itself, but rather the people playing it and the environment in which it's being played.

LiamR · Aug 15, 2006, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Really this game should be played with the spirit for which it was intended. When I kill a member of the Jade Brotherhood, or an Ice Imp, or an Undergrowth, let alone how human the appearence it still doesn't feel like I'm actually "killing someone"...they're pixels after all. I personally have never killed a pixellated character on a PC screen and thought to myself "I must .... go......kill someone ....... noooooowwww". So I can see the potential for kids to learn the value of money...but the game can be manipulated so that you don't get the "educational money" experience, Such as "mummy, can I have your card to go on ebay with", or "can someone give me 50g for storage and a perfect gold weapon to start me off?". As with everything, this sort of thing can get corrupted but these sort of games have NEVER made me want to go kill people.

Haha. Its like the kid who 'killed because of manhunt' "Oh crap i just killed someone. Wait a minute.. blame it on rockstar!!" Next you will be hearing "My 6 year old kid played pacman and now she is running around the house, screaming WAGGA WAGGA WAGGA, eating ghosts and white balls!"

Malice Black · Aug 15, 2006, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demesis

Hahahaha! This thread is a joke. Guild Wars teaching kids about money is like 'Grand Theft Auto' teaching you how to live a successful life. Or 'Super Mario' teaching you about mushroom poisoning. Or 'Singles' teaching you how to have sex.

Seriously, if a game is teaching kids what to do in real life, then where the hell are their parents? Guild Wars is the WORST game to have a kid learn from. This game encourages scamming, rudeness and harrassment because of the absence of enforcement. If this hypothetical kid were to apply all of this in real life, he'd have his ass sent to juvenile hall.

Guild Wars is a fictional game, not an educational supplement.

You want education? Go to school.

agreed to a degree

i also think that life is the biggest lesson and every day you should try and learn something new

Superdarth · Aug 15, 2006, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Uh yeah educational,especially when the kid offers to low

"WTF THATS IT?!"

Kid:Eh..what dous wtf mean?

*trader gives translation*

DevilStick · Aug 15, 2006, 08:00 PM // 20:00

I see Guild Wars as the perfect lesson for my kids. Since bots aren't allowed, I sit them in front of the computer while I'm at work to farm gold all day. Perfect preparation for the shoe factory I'm sending them to in a few months.

When they hit their quota, I let them play with their toys. Pfft. Slackers.

(Joking by the way.)

Xx Invictus xX · Aug 15, 2006, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevilStick

I see Guild Wars as the perfect lesson for my kids. Since bots aren't allowed, I sit them in front of the computer while I'm at work to farm gold all day. Perfect preparation for the shoe factory I'm sending them to in a few months.

When they hit their quota, I let them play with their toys. Pfft. Slackers.

(Joking by the way.)

Lucky for you, there are still ways to farm money. If you can afford 25 cents an hour...

they 1st link links to the 2nd link which links to the 3rd link... so i posted them all

http://guildwarsgold.co.uk/2006/04/0...-025-and-hour/

http://www.secretlair.com/index.php?..._gold_farmers/

http://www.secretlair.com/index.php?..._gold_farmers/

quiarrah · Aug 15, 2006, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister O

this game is rated 12+
no kids allowed

It's WHAT? So is EVERQUEST and my 9 year old daughter plays BOTH.

If there is any kind of lesson to be learned in any game like this it is Good against EVIL . . Good doesn't always win right form form the start. . .sometimes we falter and even fail. . but in the end. . EVIL gets it's just due. (anyone that believes in GOD here will know what I mean).

quiarrah · Aug 15, 2006, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stockholm

They economy in GW will screw them up, the over inflated prices and the amounts they deal with in GW has nothing at all to do with Real Life.
Specialy if they have accese to mom and dad's credit card (e-bay gold).

The GW economi is such that you can buy anything you want, there is no reality to it. Real life money don't drop on the ground every time you walk out side. Everything you need in life has to be paid for one way or another, in GW if you need a weapon you go kill some monsters and then you can trade( sell and buy) they drops for what you need. You have no monthly bill's you must save up for. What it teaches is, you want it buy it, get some more loot.

lol 12-19 is still Kids, unless they have a job and earn their own living

Maybe having 0 gold for X day's should freez your account for the same amount of day's just to teach kid's to save a bit for a rainy day

This is correct in GW . . .Go to EVERQUEST however and your character has a house to pay for (running anywhere from 5 silver a week to 100 Plat and Plat don't come cheap in EQ), food and drink to buy, armor to fix . . .GW is a cakewalk in comparison. If you want to use a game as a learning tool, use Everquest . . . not GW.

* I need to interject something here before people start thinking I am a bad parent. . .My daughter does NOT play these games by herself stuck in a room behind a closed door in the dark. . .(well the closed door in the dark is correct, LOL however Daddy and I are also playing in the same room. Weather it be EQ, GW, Oblivion, BAttle for Middle EArth or any combo of the 3. . .we are all together. She NEVER plays alone!)*

Alias_X · Aug 15, 2006, 10:44 PM // 22:44

It might be an alright way, but come on. IS that that BEST YOU can DO?

In game the consequences to your actions don't mean much.

unholy guardian · Aug 15, 2006, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by milias

Hi all, this just occurred to me. Given the in-game economy in GW (or any online game that has an in-game economy), this may present a good opportunity to teach kids about money in real-life. Through simulated accumulation, spending, and trading of wealth, kids can learn about financial matters in real-life. Normally, in a one-person game, the economy is simulated and not much can be garnered from it in terms of learning about finances; however, in an online environment, where everything is dynamic, and you interact with real people in real time, I think something can be said about educating kids on the importance of being financially responsible. They will learn how to accumulate money, how to spend (or not spend) money, the basics of trading, and access to a vibrant (if somewhat unregulated) economy. And as much as I hate to say it, even buying money from EBay will teach kids that nothing is perfect in the real world, and that some people will invariably use underhanded tactics to gain an advantage in life.

Personally I think these are all very valuable lessons for kids nowadays, and I think GW could serve as a pretty darn good tool for teaching them the basics of such things. What do you guys think?

a nice post but i have such the urge to say this

Does taking your clothes off and dancing for tips in town work in real life? Maybe but you probably will go to jail lol

Problem is i don't think kids learn good money useage from the game, more like mending + heal signet + frenzy = zoom

knoll · Aug 16, 2006, 01:57 AM // 01:57

In some sense yes it does help kids learn how to use there money, but can kids in reall life buy and sell? In real life there aren't any places for kids to go and buy off people then sell to other people. Now adults can do that by buying and selling ebay... or playing the stock market. But kids can learn how to save for money and buy the stuff they want, maybe like some armor, I mean clothes in real life, I'm 15 and I dont know if you considor that a kid, but i have learned how to save for FoW armor and learn hwo to buy low and sell high, but no I can't go make thounds of dollars doing it ebay, b/c I dont have the money to start myself up.

Sorry if i kinda repeated myself in there.

lg5000 · Aug 16, 2006, 05:43 AM // 05:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demesis

What ever happened to the traditional means of playing? Like action figures and lego? I remember playing with those when I was a kid. At least those action figures help me use my creativity to make my own story lines. Lego helped me understand basic mechanics when I build things.

I played chess when I was 12, no cookie-cutter builds there. No yelling of 'noob', STFU, or WTS WTS WTS WTS spam.

Not to say that your ways of teaching is wrong, you turned out perfectly fine. I just don't like kids learning from Guild Wars.

Too long to quote.

As someone who also has a 10yr old playing the game, I can tell you that when you were little, video games were not as prominent as they are now, and your parents more than likely weren't playing them.

These days, even in pre-school, you get taught how to play on a computer. Times change, as do the teaching methods.

He will still use his imagination, and often is found doing other things than GW. Just his luck (or bad luck) to be stuck in a family where the two adults play GW and rp.

Btw, my son doesn't play cookie cutter builds.. actually, it sometimes helps to double check what he brings, he keeps me entertained by what he brings, though once in a while, will ask what the best skills are in a given situation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by quiarrah

It's WHAT? So is EVERQUEST and my 9 year old daughter plays BOTH.

If there is any kind of lesson to be learned in any game like this it is Good against EVIL . . Good doesn't always win right form form the start. . .sometimes we falter and even fail. . but in the end. . EVIL gets it's just due. (anyone that believes in GOD here will know what I mean).

Yup, it's rated for 12+. That's a guideline, like every other rating, and if mum or dad wants the kid to play, then the kid gets to play.

Incidentally, getting your kids involved means that dinner discussions vary from day at school/work to current nerf/buffs in GW and the next event, and seeing as boys tend to not say much about their day at school, this is a great way to actually have a conversation with him

I guess the only thing where we come close to learning anything about GW is when it comes to setting goals. You can set a nice, easy goal, like a new set of 1.5k armor and aim for that, or you can set higher goals such as some of the titles.

Blind Rage · Aug 16, 2006, 10:56 AM // 10:56

I am 15, I am 16 in 5 months time... I think this game is a mediocre tool for teaching the value of money, but still a good tool none-the less. I have worked hard to get where I am. I have never taken the easy route and succombed to ebay, or resorted to scamming anyone, I am patient and determined, I have been playing for 10 months and my storage amount has fluctuated repeatedly but i have always managed to keep at least 20k in storage. I have often spent excessive amounts because, " I feel like it".

I always keep something to fall back on (ectos, weapon, etc) incase there is something that will cost me my entire vault of platinum, that i have to get.
I have made investments in the game (stacks of monstrous claws and fangs) but unfortunately merched them. I took a risk, i screwed up, i watched the price climb, i was pissed off. In that case i had nothing but 10k to use for factions... i perservered and i got a lucky drop. "lucky drops" rarely happen in real life, when you go bankrupt, you go bankrupt, and forget about winning the lottery, thats reserved for criminals or people who go and spend it on heroin and ass. In real life, you cant just get a "lucky drop" and everything becomes better, it just doesnt work like that. In Gw you can.

Another thing. Idiots. Yes I often profit off them daily, people who dont research prices, people who have no clue what anything is worth. I am ashamed about this but i dont give a shit if they dont know the price, I am 99.9999% that i will never EVER meet some random person from lions arch ad1 in real life, and if i do would they even know who I am? Screw them, this is a game there's one reason and one reason only why i still play this game, 10 months later; its fun. Basically... I dont give about the shit about the next person, its fair game, i'm not breaking any rules, both parties increase their wealth, just i do it a substantial amount more.

So in my honest opinion. The game does help teach kids the value of money, but inaccurately. The world doesnt give lucky drops to unfortunate people. unfortunate people get Pneumonia and die.

sorry for the long post. I suck at typing, hopefully you can read it. 500g says i contradict myself numerous times

thanks, thats my opinion. goodnight.

Gwmaster · Aug 16, 2006, 06:20 PM // 18:20

this is what happen if your kid think that Real life is like guildwars:

your kid now is 29 years old he played gw all his life, he now have 1 million $
and says "umm im so gonna buy that uber house" so he go and see some1 to buy the house and gives the 1 million to the guy, but the guy tells him that
he still need to pay 15000 more dollars. so your kid now go in town and says
"can some1 plzz spare 15k so i can finaly have my uber house plzzzzzz!!!."
after begging for 3 days he says to himself "well i guess ill have to find some wood planks and sell them.". so he cut some trees and take the wood. after that he see a litle house, he says to himself "mmm this looks like a good spot" eh enter the house close the door, and open it again to see if the trees have respawned, but guess what...they didnt. so hes now poor and eu.....add something here cuz i got nothing good to say

BunnyMaster · Aug 16, 2006, 09:55 PM // 21:55

OT:
To answer the OP......
Yes. GW teaches them that items have a value. GW teaches them that money can be spent only once. GW teaches them that money is a way of trading (item = 50k / 25k + 1 item / 10k + 2 items / 0k + 4 items). It's a way, IMO it's even a nice/good way, but it's certainly not the best way of teaching them.